Good catch on the Xtal... I thought I saw color burst freq.
Regarding R40; unless I’m missing something; I tied R0(1) and R0(2) together as when R0(1) goes high from QA; the counter is reset. That causes QD to go low; which brings both R0’s low which allows the counter to count. Again; it is my understanding that TTL “reads” high when there is an “open”; so when QA goes high from the count; it resets the counter back to zero.
On the 7493; same thing R37/R36 tie both to ground; allowing the count to continue indefinitely unless influenced by CKB.
I consulted my TI manual for TTL logic for truth tables; Is the manual wrong?
R0x are inputs to a NAND gate which implies the manual is correct.
I hate floating inputs – I was trying to tie them all to known states.
Again; according to the TI databook for 7493;
QA=12
QB=9
QC=8
QD-11
So... my schematics are correct per pinout.
Yes; I thought about a 74HC393 ... I dismissed it because there was no CKB input to the device... would QA tied into the clear pin have the same effect?
Chalked it up to too much risk given I haven’t figure out how the clocking circuits work.
Thanks for the input – let me know if I still somehow got something wrong.
<<David wrote: Change from a 200ohm slider pot to a 200ohm rotary pot.>>
I’m trying to keep things to what you can order via Digikey while keeping costs low.
In the case of a 250rotary pot; they want something like 4.5bucks for them.
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/PS45M-0MC2BR10KN/987-1405-ND/2620674 on the otherhand is more true to the original design... at 1.23 in single unit qtys.
<<Zonn wrote:
http://zonn.com/misc/x-y_rgb_output.pdf
The current design looks like it drives a 200 ohm slider to ground, and the output of the slider is used to drive the RGB inputs, allowing you to adjust the drive voltage from 4.3V to GND.
>>
Thanks for the leg work. I’ve incorporated your work into my design – with modifications to the 10k pot above. I’ve also kept the original sites incase there is an issue or someone wants the original design for some reason.
I’ve also increase C13 to give similar “time constant” rounding to the square corners (IE 6.6uS). I assume Wico did this to help with slew rates and noise on the long cables or to meet some input requirement of the vector monitors.
Dave – I’ve taken your correct wiring and incorporated it into the design. I’ve even added a truth table to help understand the circuit better.
All;
I’ve updated the schematics and reposted to:
http://Pinball-Mods.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/XYPattern.pdf
I still need to add the RGB switches and the rotary switch.
John
From: Rodger Boots
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:16 AM
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
I was taking a look at your schematic (which I'll call "YOURS") versus the one on ionpool.net (which I'll call "HIS") and have a few observations:
HIS shows the crystal as 3.795 MHz, I wonder if he meant 3.579 (a very common TV colorburst crystal). Wouldn't make much of a difference, except for availability.
YOURS has the R40 jumper connecting pins 2 & 3 of U2. That would keep U2 from working. His shows pin 3 connected to pin 11 which makes U2 a divide by 9 counter.
U3 then further divides the clock by 16. So if you changed the crystal to 24.858 KHz you could delete both U2 and U3. (3.579545 MHz divided by 9 divided by 16). Not a prayer of finding a 24.858 KHz crystal (would actually be a ceramic resonator at that frequency) though. BUT could be a 555 timer tuned to that frequency (CMOS version would be better).
HIS doesn't have the reset pins of the 7493s grounded, would keep them from counting.
Both schematics have the pinouts/connections to the 74??93s messed up.
Qa is pin 12
Qb is pin 8
Qc is pin 9
Qd is pin 11
It is pin 11, then, that provides the clock for the next stage.
U4 and U5 could be combined into one 74??393.
I'll go back to hiding in the corner now.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Zitt Zitterkopf <zittware@hotmail.com> wrote:
All,
If you’re interested in the re-capture of Dave’s Wico Schematics; I’ve temporarily posted them there:
http://Pinball-Mods.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/XYPattern.pdf
Still to-do:
1) Determine 7493 wiring vs Dave’s schematics.
2) Front Panel board integration – pending Switch Decode.
3) Simulate Opamps for circuit understanding.
4) Power Supply: pending power measurements – if someone will volunteer to get them.
5) PCB Layout.
6) BOM Generation.
Changes w/regards to Dave’s schematics:
A) Decoupling caps for each IC.
B) 0ohm “202 solder shorts” for unconnected pins of TTL gates at U2, U3, U5, and the “top” of R30 (R3). So they can be reversed if necessary.
C) Passives are likely to have different RefDez.
D) IC Power Supply pins are shown at decoupling grid.
E) “Bussed” Address pins.
F) Unused Gates are “strapped” to a known state.
G) 74xx TTL logic is becoming obsolete. Plan to use 74HC logic or 74LS logic – haven’t decided.
My plan is to have the board manufactured by batchpcb.com as a dual sided board.
Surface Mount ( yes; I can hear the screams of horror ) as I want to minimize PCB size – thereby cost.
I’d appreciate any “peer reviews” of the schematic page.
As far as open source for the schematics / pcb; I’m concerned w/regards to the original owners of the design. IE can’t really open source a product I don’t own, can I?
Besides, Dave hasn’t really given his blessing to the project given the source of the schematics are via his work.
John
From: Zitt Zitterkopf
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 9:48 PM
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
David,
Many thanks. I’ll put a shorting block to the R3 topside so it can be disconnected – I’m pretty sure it should be there; even tho TTL generally defaults to “high” if unconnected.
I found the problem I discovered – It wasn’t with the 7490; but all the 7493s. For some reason your pinouts via PADS appear wrong.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn7493a.pdf
Fortunately; the QA is right ... but QB/C/D are incorrect . On the 93; they are not wired as in the 92... 90 and 93 do share the same pinouts tho.
So; are the pin NAMEs right; or are the pin numbers? looks like the same “mistake” is present on U3/U4/U5.
I’ll go ahead and wire up the opamps – thanks for the info.
John
From: David Fish
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 8:43 PM
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
John,
>>@A-7 on page 1; R3 topside is listed as a NC.
Weird but that’s the way it is on my board. Maybe they forgot to add a +5V jumper.
>> I think you had Q2 and Q3 pins swapped
The pinout for the 7490 is correct QA=12, QB=9, QC=8 and QD=11. The PADS library part used Q0-Q3 instead of QA-QD.
>> The Power supplies weren't pictured for U14, 15, and 16.
Good catch. They’re powered by +/-12V, but that’s not shown on the schematic.
I think the connector issue stems from the fact that they have the two identical connectors numbered opposite of each other. The main board 8-pin connector is 1 thru 8 L->R while the switch board is 1->8 R-L. I wonder if I plugged my cable back in wrong? There’s no labels and the keys are symmetric (stupid). Will look into this more tomorrow.
Dave
From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of Zitt Zitterkopf
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 5:37 PM
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
Dave - You rock! Thanks to everyone else too.
I've schematic captured based upon your schematics; Dave - many thanks. The only peices I haven't captured are the PSU, the 2nd page, and diode switch matrix.
Some questions came up while "re-engineering" the schematics.
@A-7 on page 1; R3 topside is listed as a NC... I'm guessing this is incorrect as why would anyone put a resistor without a second conection?
My Guess is that R3 ties to +5V like the other two (R4, R5).
IIRC; something was "off" when I wired U2 @ D-6. I think you had Q2 and Q3 pins swapped. I'll look for sure when I get home.
The Power supplies weren't pictured for U14, 15, and 16. These Opamps are tied to the +12 and -12 rails?
I plan on simulating the opamps to try to gain insight as to what they are doing.
Seems odd that the DAC08s are driven from a non-linear voltage rail. IE V+ is 5V and V- is -12V. I'd have thunk they rails would be symetrical. IE +/-12V. Maybe the opamps linearize it?
Can anyone get me some rail power measurements?
I'm going to try and do away with the transformer and linear regulators in favor of a more complex (yeah; I know K.I.S.S) PWM psu which puts our all three rails.
If I knew what the average current was for each rail; a small PWM might be nice and cheap.
I *so* wish this was an opensource hardware project ... I'd so like to release my PCB and schematics (assuming it works) to the public.
<sigh>
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dfish_1@comcast.net
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:05:13 -0500
John,
I already have mine apart on my desk. I’m looking at it now. I’m taking lots of pictures.
Dave
From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of John Robertson
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 4:49 PM
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
David Fish wrote:
John,
Before you mirror the schematics let me take a look at them in depth. It was a looooooong time ago when I drew them.
Unfortunately, I no longer have the schematic source file or access to PADS schematic cap even if I did. I looked at them online and yes, something looks screwy about the switch board to main board connector pinout. I’m thinking there’s a reversed connector involved here. I’ll let everyone know what I find.
Dave
I have a working WICO XY Pattern Generator if you need any pictures (either of you) just let me know and I'll crack it open...
John :-#)#
From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of Mark Shostak
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:44 PM
To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
You can mirror the schematics from ionpool
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, John Robertson <pinball@telus.net> wrote:
Zitt Zitterkopf wrote:
I’m looking at the schematics for the Wico XY Pattern Generator; and can seem to figure out how the Front panel PCB connects to the Main Board.
At A-8 on the main schematics page; it shows P3-1-8 as connected to the D Flip Flops and the A10 of the U7/U8 pattern generating roms.
However, P3 doesn’t seem to connect correctly to the “cable” connected to the front panel board at B-8 on the second page.
It appears that the diode matrix appears to drive set/clear to Dflip flop U6-A which controls A9 on the ROMs.
But I’m unsure of the encoding given I can figure out how “P3” connects to the Front panel board.
Anyone have an idea?
John
Do you have a copy of the schematics so I can put them up on TTL? The manual (such as it is) is there along with images of the Eproms.
ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment/WICO
Thanks,
John :-#)#
-- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Unsubscribe, subscribe, or view the archives at http://www.vectorlist.org
** Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to chris@westnet.com
Received on Wed Nov 9 02:30:08 2011
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Nov 09 2011 - 06:50:03 EST