Re: Tempest twisting images...

John,

Is the spot killer coming on?

IIRC the rom upgrade was to prevent the spot killer from activating.

If so, I'd expect it to affect the Z axis, but not really the X axis.

Also, if you turn up the brightness (until you can see retrace), does the image still distort? Basically, can you narrow this to an X/Y issue, or a Z issue?

Thanks,
-Mark

On Thu, Jul 26, 2007 at 06:35:24PM -0700, John Robertson wrote:
> This WG monitor does not have the input protection PCB or on-board
> input protection. Early one...
>
> As I understand it the H1 prom added the Copyright ATARI bit to try
> and prevent this collapse. The H1 I have does have the correct CS
> according to various references on this issue. Makes no difference.
> Oddly enough the original H1 (.116 I think) has the same image on the
> screen.
>
> I am going to try strapping the board for the 2532s (version 3
> software) that I have and see if that does anything to improve the
> situation. If it fixes it I might simply dump all the Program data
> onto a single 27256 (keeping the original Vector PROMS) and wire that
> in so I don't waste a pile of 16s or 32s, plus greatly reduce the
> risk of PROM socket issues.
>
> John :-#)#
>
> At 7:09 PM -0600 7/26/07, Jess Askey wrote:
> >Does it have the little satellite board that sits parallel with the
> >main PCB? If so, that may be causing the collapse as it is sort of a
> >clampdown circuit. Make your screen smaller and see if the collapse
> >stops. If so, you might want to take off the protection PCB.
> >
> >John Robertson wrote:
> >
> >>Re: VECTOR: Tempest twisting images...
> >>Additional info.
> >>
> >>This has a LV2000 voltage regulator kit installed, and this is a
> >>monitor effect as the problem does not show up when using a scope
> >>set on XY with the monitor disconnected. the monitor works just
> >>fine on the XY convergence generator by the way, and all images are
> >>good except for the unbalanced ones (more image on the top than the
> >>bottom) for TEMPEST name and between player screens. All the tubes,
> >>etc. work fine, the game is totally playable - it is an irritating
> >>video artifact.
> >>
> >>John :-#)#
> >>
> >>At 1:16 PM -0700 7/26/07, John Robertson wrote:
> >>
> >>>OK, now have another Tempest c/t in the shop, with the same
> >>>!@#$!@#$ twisting of the image between players and when the
> >>>"TEMPEST" name comes up. I HAVE installed the H1 Eprom (.318)
> >>>version that displays the copyright info, but the picture still
> >>>twists the left side of the word "TEMPEST" once it is full size
> >>>and in white.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Heck, the game works fine, and I do not have enough hours to
> >>>troubleshoot something the customer is not complaining about.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Oh, the machine does have the rev 2 ROMs (2716s) installed and the
> >>>checksums match the notes on this problem. The monitor does not
> >>>have the input protection board either.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>John :-#(#
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>At 12:25 PM -0700 6/14/06, John Robertson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Thanks Jeff, that helps! Version 3 is just one ROM image change,
> >>>>isn't it? I currently have RV2 and Tubes installed...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>John :-#)#
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>At 12:43 PM -0600 6/14/06, Jeff Hendrix wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Version 3 of the ROMs fixes this problem.
> >>>>>What happens is the input protection board only see deflection
> >>>>>in one direction and shuts down the inputs.
> >>>>>Version 3 puts a copyright at the bottom of the screen and keeps
> >>>>>the picture balanced, preventing the collapse.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On 6/14/06, John Robertson
> >>>>><<mailto:pinball@telus.net>pinball@telus.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Found the problem. Turns out the replacement XY driver board I
> >>>>>had left (from my parts stock) is a version P327 with the input
> >>>>>protection circuit. I found that this circuit was the cause of
> >>>>>the twisting by hooking my scope to the inputs of Q600 and Q700
> >>>>>and getting the same twisting, but not at the X & Y outputs on
> >>>>>the motherboard. Hence something was a problem in this circuit.
> >>>>>Replaced the two transistors Q804 & Q805, plus two of the diodes
> >>>>>D806 & D808 (Germanium I think) with 1N914s.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Same problem. Poked around for another 1/2 hour...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Gave up and clipped R810 & R811 - inputs to the protection
> >>>>>circuit - and now the picture is fine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>As Tempest originally worked without the protection circuit I am
> >>>>>going to leave it disabled here - I suspect this circuit simply
> >>>>>can't handle the patterns that Tempest throws up, or the
> >>>>>capacitors are too low (88ufd instead of 100ufd, within spec
> >>>>>+10/-20% for caps.). Still it looks great and I have to move
> >>>>>on...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I made a MPEG of the twisting image, if anyone wants a copy let me know.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>John :-#)#
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>At 2:13 PM -0700 6/12/06, John Robertson wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Yes, I tried tightening the pins on the sockets. Now that I
> >>>>>>think of it the plug feels a little un-tight. I'll check stock
> >>>>>>to see if I have a plug assembly with better bite. I did do the
> >>>>>>exchange power transistor plug with the X transistors - the Y
> >>>>>>group won't reach - to make sure the problem wasn't on those
> >>>>>>two. Forgot to fully test the Y plug!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Will come back with part two tomorrow when I get back to the
> >>>>>shop - currently I'm in the warehouse digging around:
> >>>>><http://flippers.com/TimeTravelWarehouse.htm>http://flippers.com/TimeTravelWarehouse.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There are a number of vector games there folks, good time to get
> >>>>>good deals...bulk buys encouraged!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>John :-#)#
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>At 9:58 PM +0100 6/12/06, simon wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I had some strange image problems with bad Deflection transistor
> >>>>>sockets, check they are good.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Cheers
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Simon
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>
> >>>>>From: <mailto:pinball@telus.net>John Robertson
> >>>>>
> >>>>>To: <mailto:vectorlist@vectorlist.org>vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:39 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Subject: VECTOR: Tempest twisting images...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Ok, I'm lazy enough, but has anyone seen a situation with a
> >>>>>Tempest monitor where the picture twists (+ Y axis) upon the
> >>>>>display of the TEMPEST name for a second? Rather interesting
> >>>>>distortion, I originally thought it was Q606 (2N3716) that was
> >>>>>having life issues, but no, replacing it didn't change this
> >>>>>distortion, then I tried the driver - MPUSU57 - again not the
> >>>>>problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Understand that I've re-capped the HV (stable voltages) and
> >>>>>installed the LV2000 kit - stable +/- B voltages. Grounds are
> >>>>>excellent, tried jumper wires to double check. Game seems happy
> >>>>>otherwise, no smoke...connectors all inspected and solder built
> >>>>>up on the monitor driver board pins as usual.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There is also a twisting wave that appears in the picture on
> >>>>>various levels - only during play, not in the attract mode -
> >>>>>curiouser and curiouser.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I thought it had to do with the speakers as it seemed to be most
> >>>>>prominent when the sounds were very active (lots of shots,
> >>>>>explosions), so I unplugged the speakers - no change.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Yeah, pictures will be nice, but I'm off the warehouse right now
> >>>>>to deal with other issues. Perhaps I can get them tomorrow and
> >>>>>post them somewhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Archives have nothing under twist or distortion that I can find
> >>>>>relating to this...closest I found was "Tempest Boardset
> >>>>>Barreling" by Dave Langley back a few years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>John :-#(#
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>
> >>>>>John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >>>>>Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
> >>>>> <http://www.flippers.com>www.flippers.com
> >>>>>"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 11/06/2006
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>
> >>>>>John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >>>>>Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
> >>>>> <http://www.flippers.com>www.flippers.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>
> >>>>>John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >>>>>Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
> >>>>> <http://www.flippers.com>www.flippers.com
> >>>>>"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>
> >>>>John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> >>>>Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
> >>>> <http://www.flippers.com>www.flippers.com
> >>>>"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
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Received on Thu Jul 26 22:42:47 2007