Re: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches

Maybe a stupid suggestion, but isnt it possible to fit this in a FPGA ?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 8 nov. 2011 om 23:57 heeft Rodger Boots <rlboots2@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

> Be carefull with pinouts on those old 7400 series chips. Sometimes the pinout will be different between 74, 74L, 74LS, 74S, etc. It's bad enough that 7490 & 7493 have non-standard power and ground connections.
>
> On Nov 8, 2011 4:50 PM, "Zitt Zitterkopf" <zittware@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Did you get a chance to reverify the 7593's?
> Re-copying my findings:
> I found the problem I discovered – It wasn’t with the 7490; but all the 7493s. For some reason your pinouts via PADS appear wrong.
>
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn7493a.pdf
>
> Fortunately; the QA is right ... but QB/C/D are incorrect . On the 93; they are not wired as in the 92... 90 and 93 do share the same pinouts tho.
>
> So; are the pin NAMEs right; or are the pin numbers? looks like the same “mistake” is present on U3/U4/U5.
>
>
> Any chance you'd be willing to take some current measurements for the rails while you have your box open?
>
> Regardless; I appreciate the effort you made here. You are a Great asset to the community.
> John
>
> From: dfish_1@comcast.net
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:07:51 -0500
>
> >> I'm waiting on corrected wiring diagrams from Dave.
>
>
>
> OK, got it figured out. The schematic for the Main boards is correct. The schematic for the cable is correct. The schematic for the switch board will require a connector numbering ‘flip’. The boards were originally designed with the header connectors for the switches numbered opposite each other. The designers chose to key both connectors so that you could plug either connector into either header but you have to rotate one or the other to make it fit (clear?). To top it off there was no attempt at labeling the connectors on the PCB or on the cable itself.
>
>
>
> So, when it’s correctly connected the connector that I labeled J4 on the cable schematic plugs into P3 on the Main PCB. The other end of the cable is plugged into the connector labeled J5 on the Switch PCB, In order to do this the connector is rotated forcing the numbering system that I have for P5 to require re-numbering, i.e. J5-1 becomes J5-8, J5-2 becomes J5-7, etc.
>
>
>
> It ends up with the emitter of Q1 connected to the ‘top’ end of the slider potentiometer and the Ground signals connected together.
>
>
>
> Sorry about the screw-up. I should have had someone check the schematic before I released it.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of Zitt Zitterkopf
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:31 AM
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> Zonn,
> Xcellent Feedback! Many thanks!
>
> Yes. Q1E is tied to the Front Panel board which is part of the switch matrix. I'm waiting on corrected wiring diagrams from Dave.
> My gut tells me the Emitter is tied to the 200ohm pot which in turn drives RGB out.
>
> The problem with this RGB out circuit as is... is that the 200ohm slider pot doesn't appear to exist anymore. The best I could find from Digikey is either a 250 expensive rotary pot. Or a 5K slider pot. I'm wondering if I could use one of the spare opamps to emulate the 200ohm pot from a 5k slider pot. But the KISS methodology tells me it's smater to just to the 250 rotary pot. Thoughts?
>
> The opamps are TL084B . Thanks for the tip regarding opamp strapping... will make these changes tonight after work.
> John
>
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 02:28:20 -0800
> From: mlists@zonn.com
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
> It looks like Q1 is missing a resistor on its emitter to ground, and a wire going somewhere (is this the Z-axis driver?). Without these the whole U12B circuit doesn't do anything, and you can remove it.
>
> Depending upon the op-amps you're using, you might want to put some 10~50ohm resistors on the outputs of the the op-amps that drive the monitors. (U14 B&C and U16 B&C). They will keep the op-amp from oscillating when driving long wires, and will give some protection if (or should I say when) the outputs are shorted to ground, a voltage, or each other. Some op amps have these resistors built in. Your schematic doesn't mention the op-amp's value so I couldn't look them up.
>
> Use 74HCxxx series. they're fast, low power, and will be more noise resistant than the 74xx or 74LSxx devices.
>
> The proper way to terminate unused op-amp sections (U14D & U16D) is to tie the '-' input to the output (like U16D), and tie the '+' to ground. This forces the output to ground (instead of +12V or -12V). This will usually result in lower power consumption, and prevents disasters if the output accidentally gets shorted by the probe of a voltmeter or oscilloscope.
>
> -Zonn
>
> On 11/7/2011 10:52 PM, Zitt Zitterkopf wrote:
>
> All,
>
> If you’re interested in the re-capture of Dave’s Wico Schematics; I’ve temporarily posted them there:
>
> http://Pinball-Mods.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/XYPattern.pdf
>
>
>
> Still to-do:
>
> 1) Determine 7493 wiring vs Dave’s schematics.
>
> 2) Front Panel board integration – pending Switch Decode.
>
> 3) Simulate Opamps for circuit understanding.
>
> 4) Power Supply: pending power measurements – if someone will volunteer to get them.
>
> 5) PCB Layout.
>
> 6) BOM Generation.
>
>
>
> Changes w/regards to Dave’s schematics:
>
> A) Decoupling caps for each IC.
>
> B) 0ohm “202 solder shorts” for unconnected pins of TTL gates at U2, U3, U5, and the “top” of R30 (R3). So they can be reversed if necessary.
>
> C) Passives are likely to have different RefDez.
>
> D) IC Power Supply pins are shown at decoupling grid.
>
> E) “Bussed” Address pins.
>
> F) Unused Gates are “strapped” to a known state.
>
> G) 74xx TTL logic is becoming obsolete. Plan to use 74HC logic or 74LS logic – haven’t decided.
>
>
>
> My plan is to have the board manufactured by batchpcb.com as a dual sided board.
>
> Surface Mount ( yes; I can hear the screams of horror ) as I want to minimize PCB size – thereby cost.
>
>
>
> I’d appreciate any “peer reviews” of the schematic page.
>
>
>
> As far as open source for the schematics / pcb; I’m concerned w/regards to the original owners of the design. IE can’t really open source a product I don’t own, can I?
> Besides, Dave hasn’t really given his blessing to the project given the source of the schematics are via his work.
>
> John
>
>
>
> From: Zitt Zitterkopf
>
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 9:48 PM
>
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
>
> Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
> David,
>
> Many thanks. I’ll put a shorting block to the R3 topside so it can be disconnected – I’m pretty sure it should be there; even tho TTL generally defaults to “high” if unconnected.
>
>
>
> I found the problem I discovered – It wasn’t with the 7490; but all the 7493s. For some reason your pinouts via PADS appear wrong.
>
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn7493a.pdf
>
> Fortunately; the QA is right ... but QB/C/D are incorrect . On the 93; they are not wired as in the 92... 90 and 93 do share the same pinouts tho.
>
> So; are the pin NAMEs right; or are the pin numbers? looks like the same “mistake” is present on U3/U4/U5.
>
>
>
> I’ll go ahead and wire up the opamps – thanks for the info.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> From: David Fish
>
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 8:43 PM
>
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
>
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
> John,
>
>
>
> >>@A-7 on page 1; R3 topside is listed as a NC.
>
>
>
> Weird but that’s the way it is on my board. Maybe they forgot to add a +5V jumper.
>
>
>
> >> I think you had Q2 and Q3 pins swapped
>
>
>
> The pinout for the 7490 is correct QA=12, QB=9, QC=8 and QD=11. The PADS library part used Q0-Q3 instead of QA-QD.
>
>
>
> >> The Power supplies weren't pictured for U14, 15, and 16.
>
>
>
> Good catch. They’re powered by +/-12V, but that’s not shown on the schematic.
>
>
>
> I think the connector issue stems from the fact that they have the two identical connectors numbered opposite of each other. The main board 8-pin connector is 1 thru 8 L->R while the switch board is 1->8 R-L. I wonder if I plugged my cable back in wrong? There’s no labels and the keys are symmetric (stupid). Will look into this more tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of Zitt Zitterkopf
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 5:37 PM
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> Dave - You rock! Thanks to everyone else too.
> I've schematic captured based upon your schematics; Dave - many thanks. The only peices I haven't captured are the PSU, the 2nd page, and diode switch matrix.
>
> Some questions came up while "re-engineering" the schematics.
>
> @A-7 on page 1; R3 topside is listed as a NC... I'm guessing this is incorrect as why would anyone put a resistor without a second conection?
> My Guess is that R3 ties to +5V like the other two (R4, R5).
>
> IIRC; something was "off" when I wired U2 @ D-6. I think you had Q2 and Q3 pins swapped. I'll look for sure when I get home.
>
> The Power supplies weren't pictured for U14, 15, and 16. These Opamps are tied to the +12 and -12 rails?
> I plan on simulating the opamps to try to gain insight as to what they are doing.
>
> Seems odd that the DAC08s are driven from a non-linear voltage rail. IE V+ is 5V and V- is -12V. I'd have thunk they rails would be symetrical. IE +/-12V. Maybe the opamps linearize it?
>
> Can anyone get me some rail power measurements?
> I'm going to try and do away with the transformer and linear regulators in favor of a more complex (yeah; I know K.I.S.S) PWM psu which puts our all three rails.
> If I knew what the average current was for each rail; a small PWM might be nice and cheap.
>
> I *so* wish this was an opensource hardware project ... I'd so like to release my PCB and schematics (assuming it works) to the public.
> <sigh>
>
> John
>
>
>
> From: dfish_1@comcast.net
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:05:13 -0500
>
> John,
>
>
>
> I already have mine apart on my desk. I’m looking at it now. I’m taking lots of pictures.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of John Robertson
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 4:49 PM
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> David Fish wrote:
>
> John,
>
>
>
> Before you mirror the schematics let me take a look at them in depth. It was a looooooong time ago when I drew them.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I no longer have the schematic source file or access to PADS schematic cap even if I did. I looked at them online and yes, something looks screwy about the switch board to main board connector pinout. I’m thinking there’s a reversed connector involved here. I’ll let everyone know what I find.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
> I have a working WICO XY Pattern Generator if you need any pictures (either of you) just let me know and I'll crack it open...
>
> John :-#)#
>
>
>
> From: owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] On Behalf Of Mark Shostak
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 2:44 PM
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> You can mirror the schematics from ionpool
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, John Robertson <pinball@telus.net> wrote:
>
> Zitt Zitterkopf wrote:
>
> I’m looking at the schematics for the Wico XY Pattern Generator; and can seem to figure out how the Front panel PCB connects to the Main Board.
>
>
>
> At A-8 on the main schematics page; it shows P3-1-8 as connected to the D Flip Flops and the A10 of the U7/U8 pattern generating roms.
>
>
>
> However, P3 doesn’t seem to connect correctly to the “cable” connected to the front panel board at B-8 on the second page.
>
>
>
> It appears that the diode matrix appears to drive set/clear to Dflip flop U6-A which controls A9 on the ROMs.
>
> But I’m unsure of the encoding given I can figure out how “P3” connects to the Front panel board.
>
>
>
> Anyone have an idea?
>
> John
>
> Do you have a copy of the schematics so I can put them up on TTL? The manual (such as it is) is there along with images of the Eproms.
>
> ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment/WICO
>
> Thanks,
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
> www.flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>
>
>
>
>

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Received on Tue Nov 8 18:57:24 2011